Curse

lishi · May 07, 2010, 11:32 AM // 11:32

It kinda pisses me of the silence from anet.
Probably they cannot do anything right now but to be fair their lack of response just give the impression "it's safe to bot", the amount of botting is increasing in the game.
I see plenty of people who even started to bot with their main account, the sad thing is that i understand why they are doing it. I feel the pull of dark side myself.

Scarlett Romanov · May 07, 2010, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fillyra

/notsigned if you really want Anet's attention open up NCsoft support tickets.

I haven't seen any bots either and they haven't been affecting my gameplay of the game. *shrug*

even went to HA and looked around for 3 hours didn't see any bots.

Either way I have faith in Anet that they're doing a great job and they'll get these bots even without needing to respond to this thread. :x

Clearly you've never filed a ticket with support. Manually reporting bots gets you no where. I have done it not once, but several times with bots in FA. No bans. Those players are still playing several months after the reports.

Bots are in FA every day. Come to the Kurzick side. I can point a few out if you want to know who they are.

DigitalFear · May 07, 2010, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Four days and still no response? *sigh*

Rocky Raccoon · May 07, 2010, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigitalFear

Four days and still no response? *sigh*

Maybe the title has something to do with it. " Petition to Demand a Response from Anet on Botting". I know when people demand things of me I turn a deaf ear to them.

Karate Jesus · May 07, 2010, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky Raccoon

Maybe the title has something to do with it. " Petition to Demand a Response from Anet on Botting". I know when people demand things of me I turn a deaf ear to them.

Then someone move it to another name for all I care. Again, it's a legal term used by protesters. It's not meant to be rude.

I could have said "Petition to Sequester a Response on Botting" and it would have meant the exact same thing.

snaek · May 07, 2010, 03:40 PM // 15:40

no matter what the title, anet wasn't going to respond...did you really think they would have?

Hells Fury · May 07, 2010, 03:41 PM // 15:41

/signed

because i don't like ungodly things like rupting 1/2 sec spells

Nerel · May 07, 2010, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Then someone move it to another name for all I care. Again, it's a legal term used by protesters. It's not meant to be rude.

I could have said "Petition to Sequester a Response on Botting" and it would have meant the exact same thing.

Sequester also means to remove, withdraw or hide... I'm not sure if Anet would be adverse to hiding any such response...

Morphy · May 07, 2010, 04:03 PM // 16:03

How could anyone possibly not sign this?

/signed

Killed u man · May 07, 2010, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Ironically, Gaile responded on my issue on wiki.

I'll quote it here for those who don't use wiki:

Quote:

Originally Posted by -- Gaile 22:42, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I think you've asked this question of the wrong person, and in the wrong place. But the short answer is, yes, botting is cheating, and the answer to the predicted follow-up is "Yes, we block botters daily and will continue to do so." Of course, I can predict the follow up to that will be, "Why aren't you addressing (this area) or (that bot program) or (those people)?" Please forgive me if I decline to get into specifics. Again, we block bots daily; I know this because I get the daily and weekly stats which I share with the studio and publisher in one of my reports. And truly, we intend to continue blocking bots daily and examining ways in which we can make our efforts more effective. (I apologize for what probably seems a generic response, but I am sincere in what I'm saying.)

*This is not Gaile, but this is someone asking a question, posting it now because gaile replies to this question in particular

Quote:

Originally Posted by --Lemming 22:49, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I understand that the support crew would be loathe to share their criteria for bot detection, but are the usage of visual inspection and common sense among them? The prevalence of interrupt botting and champ point syncing is well-documented by observer mode, yet support finds any evidence provided to be inconclusive, when taking a look would make it immediately obvious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -- Gaile 23:50, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

yes and yes, but on a limited basis, as is reasonable. That is, we don't have the staffing to rotate a dozen agents into ObsMode 24/7 to watch each match, detect instances of possible botting, discuss with other crew members for confirmation, and action the accounts involved. There is some observation involved in tracking bots, yes. That is how several dozens--if not hundreds--of botters are banned in any given week. Other means are always being investigated, for as you can see with the game content itself, there's no end to what may be added, changed, or improved in the future. BTW, are you using the /report system on the botters? Is there a way to improve that system? (Aside from the obvious, "Yeah, get a dozen people on ObsMode.

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by -- Gaile 00:24, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the tickets; I'll take a look. I agree reporting on ObsMode would be awesome. If we had a system to report, "Cheating spotted at 2:45 in the Match #11 on ObsMode now" that would be amazing. Of course, we'd still have to view, verify, discuss, confirm, and action, and all before the match falls off OM, but it could be a handy tool. I can ask about that for GW2. In the meantime, what you're doing is good -- having a team report live situations is very useful to support.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -- Gaile 04:04, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Guys, it occurs to me that I may have inadvertently suggested that I can help with something that I really don't have the bandwidth to personally handle. There is only one of me, and my focus is and must be on different things, for instance, on policies and procedures, on communication between developers and teams, etc., not (generally) on individual bot reports. I wish I could clone myself and spend my 8, 10, even 12 hours a day reviewing these reports. I put in a lot of volunteer (unpaid) time; I guess at 9:00 at night, I'm doing that now. But I can't make even that extra time go far enough to start reviewing individual bot reports. (And remember that skill bars and speed are not direct indictments or proof of botting; some legitimate players are good enough to look like a bot. And yes, some or many of those who look "too good to be true" are botting, I agree. My point is that a review is a time-consuming process and a light re-review won't be likely to change the outcome.
Bot reports are reviewed and tickets are answered by support team members, and only rarely would one be escalated to me. If one is, I'll get involved. But I can't offer secondary or tertiary reviews of tickets already reviewed by the team. I assure you I am interested in the subject, and I'm committed to doing what I can to resolve the overall problem, as are many others and I really am sorry that I cannot offer to assist more directly.

I still think Anet should release a public statement regarding these bots, because it's getting redicilous. I really didn't care that much about bots, because I've known them to be used in high end GvG for years now (Unlike the majority of ppl who believe they got created only recently: I saw interrupt bots, anti bull's bots and weaponswap bots in 2008 mAT's), but having recently HA'd, we faced an interrupt bot in about 1/5 matches. 20% doesn't seem much, but facing an interrupt bot who Powerblocks your prot on recharge, and pretty much interrupts EVERY spell of your midline caster aswell as channeling on the HB monk, the ONLY choice you have is to try and kill them before they can kill you. (You won't stay up longer than 2 minutes)

On top of that, there's 2-3 people in particular who always run the same Rt/A way with a bonder which takes forever to kill. Facing them pretty much means auto-loss (esp when rt/a way on it's on is already such a hard people to beat), which is also why you see such a large amount of Rt/A ways in HoH nowdays. (Atleast 2 out of the 4-5 guilds which occasionaly run it have a bot mesmer)

Karate Jesus · May 07, 2010, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I still think Anet should release a public statement regarding these bots, because it's getting redicilous.

When a guild can place in the mATs with a bot program in their name and not get banned, then you know that Anet is full of shit.

Burton2000 · May 07, 2010, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

When a guild can place in the mATs with a bot program in their name and not get banned, then you know that Anet is full of shit.

Would be a funny guild name if they didn't use bots but they do so its just depressing.

Septeric · May 07, 2010, 04:58 PM // 16:58

well then...

there is the response:

Originally Posted by -- Gaile 04:04, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Quote:

I may have inadvertently suggested that I can help with something that I really don't have the bandwidth to personally handle. There is only one of me, and my focus is and must be on different things, for instance, on policies and procedures, on communication between developers and teams, etc., not (generally) on individual bot reports

again:

Quote:

not (generally) on individual bot reports

ok.. so that leaves us who to ask?!

no one it seems

Coverticus · May 07, 2010, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Tbh, no matter what ANet does is not going to stop the botting issue. With the skeleton crew they have to support the game, their current detection methods are not good enough/fast enough to respond to the sheer volume of bots being used.
And while they could plug the current holes in the client application to make DLL injecting harder, this still won't stop things (thanks to Windows lol). People will find ways round the blocks and it will be a never ending cycle (after all, the underlying code of the client is over 5 years old).

What is needed is both the client and server to have a radical overhaul, redesign if you wish. That is the only way to curb this properly. But this won't happen I'm afraid, so it's hardly unsurprising that ANet are keeping quiet/responding as vaguely as ever.

Tramp · May 07, 2010, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Reading Gailes comments, I totally sympathize with Gaile and the rest of the people there, even if I am really mad about everything in gw at the moment. They are adults with jobs and they are being asked to baby sit a bunch of whining and cheating and scamming teenage computer wizzes and spank them if they were naughty. There really isnt enough time in the day to catch all these scammers and lamers in kamadan let alone botters everywhere else. I am sure if I owned the business it would come down to money. Do I hire some 40k a year employees to spend 8 hours a day investigating a bunch of whiners pointing fingers at each other and other players, or do I shift those 40k a year jobs into developing the next product that our shareholders expect. One generates no future income, and the other does. So as long as the problems stay contained and at acceptable levels (games will never be 100% free of scammers/cheaters because some of these computer nerds are as good as the developers at coding etc) then I know where I would put my resources if I was running the company. That level of containment (or support) changes over time as one product is phased out and another is ready to be released. That is the history of all products at all companies. I think we just have to deal with reality and get over it. You probably have less than a dozen people on gw1 issues now if even that, and they are probably not hard core programmers. Which might explain the Testes Krewe idea which was implemented to give them zero cost input to skill changes. (Of course that, imo, resulted in the worse skill changes ever and should be reverted which would put a lot of players back at an acceptable time vs. reward ratio and increase the player base, not chase them away.) If it were me running the business, I would maintain/contain cheating to an "acceptable loss" range with the smallest amount of resources, and instead spend most of my money and time on GW2. As a player I would not necessary want that, but it is not my money to spend so it is easy to bitch and complain and make demands of other people's time and money. Despite a few dozen of us on guru complaining, 99% of the fan base are casual players and would tell us to get a life. So change me to:

/sympathetic but still pissed off at everything and everyone gw and not gw related

(I am actually thinking of not becoming a troll anymore... I must be getting weak.)

Septeric · May 07, 2010, 05:43 PM // 17:43

@Tramp

good insight.. and after peeking at one the the major botting sites this morning... i see their ranks have went up 450+ registered users since this thread was started a few days ago.
(just 1 site)

to quote a line in the aliens movie.

that's it man.. game over... game over man... game over...

Greedy Gus · May 07, 2010, 07:14 PM // 19:14

If you don't hold their feet to the fire, then they would never have a reason to even consider changing priorities or seeing how they can address the various problems.

Kattar · May 07, 2010, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy Gus

If you don't hold their feet to the fire, then they would never have a reason to even consider changing priorities or seeing how they can address the various problems.

How are we holding their feet to the fire?

Greedy Gus · May 07, 2010, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kattar

How are we holding their feet to the fire?

Trashing them for being incompetent and letting their game be run into the ground on multiple forums? Do whatever you can really, and avoid the white-knight instinct to call for the closure of negative threads like this. Anet is in the business of making money and holds multiple jobs to maintain GW1. They don't need moral support, and players have a responsibility to raise as loud a stink as necessary proportional to the various festering problems.

Ariovist Lynxkind · May 07, 2010, 11:05 PM // 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Septeric

well then...

there is the response:

Originally Posted by -- Gaile 04:04, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

again:

ok.. so that leaves us who to ask?!

no one it seems

Regina.

It is her job now, since she is the one that took over from Gaile as the community relations person. It isnt Gaile's job anymore so we really shouldn't be asking her.

I would suggest Lindsey too, but some people are getting pissed at the rate the WiK is coming out, so I wouldnt want to delay her any more